Clinton Issues Historic Challenge

Newsweek has the story hot-off the campaign trail in Indiana:

Clinton took the debate dispute to a new level, challenging Obama to face off with her in a debate without a moderator, Lincoln-Douglas style.

"Just the two of us, going for 90 minutes, asking and answering questions, we'll set whatever rules seem fair," Clinton said while campaigning in South Bend.

Clinton says her opponent will not face her in a debate because he felt that moderators treated him unfairly.

Barack Obama tried to frame his rationale differently:

"I was convinced that the American people were tired of the politics that's all about tearing each other down. The American people were tired of spin and PR, they wanted straight talk and honesty from their elected officials," Obama said at a town hall meeting in the aging industrial city of Anderson.

"If you watched the last few weeks of this campaign, you'd think that all politics is about is negative ads and bickering and arguing, gaffes and sideline issues," said Obama. "There's no serious discussion about how to bring jobs back, to Anderson."

It is noteworthy that Barack Obama offerred no such serious discussion himself today.  Instead, he focused largely on the broad-stroke, positive themes that animated his campaign originally, intermixed with complaints about "Washington".

Speaking about the state of the race, he said:

Everybody is kind of nervous about this Democratic primary, it's been going on a long time.

He later added:

We will be united in November and beat John McCain and the Republicans.

For my part, I think this is a bold move for Hillary.  While she possesses a near-encyclopedic mastery of the issues, she does not have Obama's oratory gifts.  And given the reaction of Obama-pundits to their own kin at ABC, imagine how they will react if Sen. Clinton draws a sharp contrast or asks a pointed question.  As I see it, this is a no-brainer for Barack.  He gets to dodge the claim that he is too timid or aloof to debate, but can participate in a contest that is almost certain to favor him.

More importantly: this is cool.  Who among you isn't at least curious to see how this would go?  A debate without moderators, cast in a historic light, during a historic contest, would be something fresh.  And it might well be remembered decades later, if either of these candidates wins the White House this year.


Poll
A debate without moderators?
Yes, please.
No, thanks.

Votes: 30
Results : Vote Link : Polls

Display:


Re: Clinton Issues Historic Challenge (none / 0)

links??


by Todd Beeton on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 04:49:08 PM EST

Re: Clinton Issues Historic Challenge (none / 0)

I'm sorry - added URL to Newsweek article.


by bobbank on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 04:52:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton Issues Historic Challenge (none / 0)

Todd,

Sorry to threadjack, I'm sure Bob will think it's okay, but would you be willing to officiate over a Clinton/Obama supporter debate hereabouts?


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 05:25:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton Issues Historic Challenge (2.00 / 1)


 He won`t do it because of HRC`s grasp of the issues and he would be left to say ME TOO.
Wisdom Is The Reward For Listening Over A Lifetime
by gunner on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 04:50:50 PM EST

Re: Clinton Issues Historic Challenge (none / 0)

Heck, Clinton has skipped debates when it's been a benefit to her in the past. Besides, a referee is a nice thing to have.

Heck, Bob, I tell you what- great issue to bring up. Why not have a debate between Obama and Clinton supporters around here on these sorts of issues?


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 04:52:59 PM EST

Re: Clinton Issues Historic Challenge (1.00 / 1)


 Maybe she should just go ahead and debate Mccain since he would probably be afraid to. Must have something to do with those roosting chickens.
Wisdom Is The Reward For Listening Over A Lifetime
by gunner on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 04:55:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton Issues Historic Challenge (none / 0)

I have suggested exactly that.

I think we would learn more about our candidates, frankly, if we had to research their positions on very specific issues and then argue them.


by bobbank on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 04:56:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton Issues Historic Challenge (2.00 / 1)

http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/4/26/1619 3/6766

I'd love your input. You are someone I could definitely see on the Clinton side.


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 04:58:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton Issues Historic Challenge (none / 0)

I'm in.  And I highly rec your diary.


by bobbank on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 05:02:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton Issues Historic Challenge (2.00 / 0)

In both her Senate primaries, when she was in Obama's shoes.


The Wayward Episcopalian
by Transplanted Texan on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:59:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

This is a repeat diary (none / 0)

I say this in every repeat diary I see.

For my thoughts on this see the diary that was posted first.


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 04:54:21 PM EST

Re: This is a repeat diary (none / 0)

But I thought we were friends. :(

[I take longer to type my diaries I think.. when I started typing there was nothing on this.  By the time I finished: voila!  Sorry for the duplication.]


by bobbank on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 04:57:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Ah I didn't see that (none / 0)

perhaps you could offer some ideas or analysis that the diarist who beat you to it didn't.  Maybe Obama's reaction to this call (I thought I heard Axelrod on CNN about why this won't happen...) could be an addition to this diary.


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 04:58:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This is a repeat diary (none / 0)

Please leave it up. This is important and has some real historical resonance; besides, you were fair about it.

A Lincoln-Douglas debate between two really smart people - I don't see the drawbacks. Rec'd.


"This election is not about ideology, it's about competence." -Michael Dukakis
by MBNYC on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 05:19:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This is a repeat diary (none / 0)

Oh and does the other diary have a poll?  Huh?  Huh?


by bobbank on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 04:58:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This is a repeat diary (none / 0)

Umm.. a poll whose wording is not sharply biased, that is?


by bobbank on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 04:58:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

No (none / 0)

but your diary should have both options.

I'm all for a moderator like Bill Moyers or Gwen Ifil (not sure if I got the name right), however don't try to push someone like Timmeh or Gibson or Georgie on a debate.


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 05:00:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This is a repeat diary (none / 0)

Hmm. He's got you there, doc.


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 05:00:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

That is true (none / 0)

I wish I could edit my comments myDD should have that feature.


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 05:41:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton Issues Historic Challenge (none / 0)

I saw her at the rally at the cove ,in South Bend , filled up the stadium with thousands .

She just seemed to be having too much fun out there ,she was holding a baseball bat .

No she isn't nuts , it was given to here at the stadium with a jersey.

She mocked Obama for complaining about the ABC debate and the moderators and issued the challenge .

Forget about the moderators , lets just go one on one for 90 minutes .

Obama would obviously reject it.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 04:57:01 PM EST

Re: Clinton Issues Historic Challenge (none / 0)

Why should Obama give hillary any free publicity?
She's loaded let her pay for it herself.
by venician on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 04:59:18 PM EST

Re: Clinton Issues Historic Challenge (none / 0)

You're kidding right? The word drama is associated with women? What the hell are clintonites spiking their calcium supplemental
drinks with?
by venician on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 08:49:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton Issues Historic Challenge (2.00 / 1)

Stereotypes for the lose.


by bobbank on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 10:10:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton Issues Historic Challenge (2.00 / 0)

Please respect the MyDD guidelines and only TR comments that deserve it, and when asked to so, explain yourself. You need to stop TRing every comment you see I've made just for the hell of it, especially non-offensive comments on my own frontpage posts, or you'll start finding your own comments hidden from view. You are abusing your comment privileges and you could very well find them revoked.


The Wayward Episcopalian
by Transplanted Texan on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 10:49:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

This user needs to (none / 0)

have their ratings ability revoked because they obviously don't know the porpuse of the rating system.


Because I wont trade humanity for patriotism!
by Drewid on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:52:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton Issues Historic Challenge (none / 0)

He'd be insane to go for that. If she wants to do it she thinks she can make him look bad or has something up her sleeve. I don't trust her for one minute and I'm sure Obama doesn't either. She's behind and will from now on be trying everything possible to turn things around. I don't think anyone really wants to watch any more debates. I could pretty much say both of their lines for them.  I think he should ignore her from now on and focus on McCain only. Who cares what she hollers about.


by Becky G on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 05:04:03 PM EST

Re: Clinton Issues Historic Challenge (none / 0)

With his debate performace on ABC , why would he want another one ?


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 05:06:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Considering how many rules (none / 0)


   Clinton has tried to change...to give her a microphone with no way to cut it off would be a bad move on Obama's part.

  Clinton is hardly interested in playing fair. If Obama wants to debate..fine, that sounds good. But Hillary isn't doing this b/c "Indiana voters deserve to hear us." That's nonsense. She's doing it b/c she's losing and is desperately trying to stop Obama.


by southernman on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 05:06:29 PM EST

Mybe, but (none / 0)

we, all of us, always complain about the petty and gotcha nature of debates as they are. This would be different, and arguably historic. We haven't had a debate like this since the 1890s, I think. Bob is right, this is a good thing.

Whoever comes out ahead in a debate like this is immaterial. The American people and Democrats would benefit, and that's what matters at the end of the day.


"This election is not about ideology, it's about competence." -Michael Dukakis
by MBNYC on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 05:22:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Mybe, but (none / 0)


   You're assuming that Hillary will be disciplined enough to not focus on the "gotcha" bullshit.

  I'm not convinced of that at all. That focus is the only reason she's still in the game...it's the only card she has to play.


by southernman on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 05:29:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Mybe, but (none / 0)

If she focused on "bullshit" it would be to her disadvantage, not his.


by bobbank on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 06:27:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Mybe, but (none / 0)

I don't think so.

To Hillary's credit (or discredit?) she seems very in tune with what pollsters assemble about even the most minute data.  I'm sure she's aware that she's been perceived as an attack and somewhat of a gloater over Obama's numerous mini-scandals.  She's probably tuned into the fact that she received higher positives when she can strut her encyclopedic grasp of foreign/domestic policy.

That given, Hillary would probably simply attempt to upstage him in terms of knowledge.  I don't think she would say nonsense like "Does Rev. W love America as much as you?"

Obama should accept the challenge.  If he is terrified of Hillary Clinton, he will be quaking like a scared bird when North Korea, Iran, and Venezuela come calling.  At 3 AM of course.  ;-)


Young lifelong Democrat. One of over 3,000,000 voters who kicked McCain and Palin out of Pennsylvania, permanently.
by BPK80 on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 06:32:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Put me down (none / 0)

as loving the idea. I would love to see something like this - maybe in the original location of the Lincoln-Douglas debates?

Reluctant kudos to Hillary. This could be a public service if they agree on it.


"This election is not about ideology, it's about competence." -Michael Dukakis
by MBNYC on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 05:15:55 PM EST

Re: Clinton Issues Historic Challenge (none / 0)

Obama supporter and I love the idea of a debate where only the candidates frame the issues.  I hope he accepts.


by mady on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 05:16:37 PM EST

Re: Clinton Issues Historic Challenge (none / 0)

This idea is awesome.  I hope Obama ignores Axelrod's advice and accepts the challenge.  I like Hill a lot but I think her advantage over Obama in debates is a overstated.  She's quicker on her feet when confronted with gotcha and nonsense questions and has a slight edge on him with domestic issues.  I would rank them even on foreign policy issues as Hill has been prone to making errors in this area (e.g. Med, Medve, whatever)

The offer came with ground rules; they can agree that no questions will be posed about Whitewater, tax returns, Clinton library donors, Rezko, Ayers, Wright, flag pins, who is more electable against McCain, Bosnia, Foster, and poll numbers.

Isn't it funny that the party picked the two people who both have enough baggage to fill a cargo airline carrier?  These two were made for each other, everything from the use of the phrase "you know" to their ability to score good land deals.


by Blazers Edge on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 05:31:04 PM EST

Barack will refuse (none / 0)

He just does not have the guts to take on Clinton. Everytime he debates her, he looses votes at the polls.  


by ann0nymous on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 05:40:17 PM EST

Re: Clinton Issues Historic Challenge (2.00 / 1)

Hillary has got more guts than anybody else in Wasington.

It really is like she's Winston Churchill and Obama's Neville Chamberlain.

Before these primaries, I never realized just how incredibly brilliant and strong she his.

It would be an honor to have her as our President.

I'd be glad to go to work for her at $1/Year.

Our country's best minds would line up to do it.

She's simply amazing.

She's a lion. Obama's a mouse.


by BerkekeyGuy on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 06:10:44 PM EST

Re: Clinton Issues Historic Challenge (none / 0)

Sounds fun. I was an LD debater in high school, so I'd enjoy this immensely. Definitely cool.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 06:25:24 PM EST

Update (none / 0)

CNN is running this as a front page story now.

Here is the footage of the original challenge.
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politic s/2008/04/26/sot.hillary.debate.proposal .cnn

I think the media loves this idea as much as we do.


by bobbank on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 10:18:35 PM EST


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